Clint Watson: Diplomatic ties between China and The Bahamas are said to be good and in good standing. This is a very thoughtful edition of beyond the headlines, the first public interview with the ambassador of the People's Republic of China to the Bahamas.Your Excellency. Thank you so much for being here. Welcome to The Bahamas, and welcome to beyond the headlines.
Dai Qingli: Thank you very much, Clint, for having me.
Overall relations
Clint Watson:Let's get into our discussion, and talk about the relationship between The Bahamas and China. How would you describe it?
Dai Qingli: I'm glad to say China-Bahamas relations are friendly, strong and productive. This relationship is defined by equality and mutual respect. In the past the 24 years of our diplomatic relations, our two countries have enjoyed increasing mutual trust, fruitful economic and trade cooperation, and increasing people to people exchanges. We have achieved a lot together, and we can certainly look forward to an even more promising future for China-Bahamas relations.
China's footprint in The Bahamas
Clint Watson: Talk about the investments with China and The Bahamas. You have a strong footprint here. We know about the stadiums, we know about the port in Abaco and of course the Pointe development that's going on and new phases are opening every day. Is there anything else when you talk about the footprint of investments between The Bahamas and China?
Dai Qingli: We can go through briefly the list of the landmark projects we have done together in the past decade and more. We have one project supported by grant aid from China, that is, the Thomas Robinson stadium, as you mentioned. That is a gift from the Chinese people to the Bahamian people. With concessional loans, we have two major projects, the airport gateway, which remains one of the highest quality highways in The Bahamas. We also have the port in northern Abaco. This port survived Hurricane Dorian very well, and it was helpful for the delivery of post-Dorian relief for the local people. We are happy about that.
In terms of commercial development projects, we can list three main ones like the Baha Mar, which is one of the biggest private employer in this country creating new jobs for The Bahamas. And the Pointe, as you mentioned, is injecting new vigor into Bay Street in downtown Nassau. We also have a container port in Grand Bahama. That's the biggest container port in the Caribbean. We are happy that these projects have been helpful for creating jobs and for tourism and economic development in general for your country.
Clint Watson: There has been the concern that the port in Abaco is not being fully utilized the way it was designed to be. Is China and the government concerned about the fact that the port is just not really being maximized at this time, or full of economic activity?
Dai Qingli: As you know, this port is built with Chinese concessional loans and turned over to the Bahamas government and people. So we look to the Bahamas government and people to make the best use of these port. But having a port in full functioning is a complicated issue. You need roads, you need all the infrastructure, and you actually need an industrial park to support this port, so that you will have container traffic coming in and out and flows of goods. So it's not just an individual port by itself. It's a comprehensive endeavor involving many different aspects, like industrial and tourism development. We are happy to continue to work with the Bahamas government to make sure that this port plays is due role for the economic development in northern Abaco.
China's interests in The Bahamas
Clint Watson: Why is there such a comprehensive interest in these linkages in The Bahamas, by the Chinese people?
Dai Qingli: China has friends all over the world. We established diplomatic relations with 180 countries, all on the basis of the one China principle. And we have 260 diplomatic missions around the world, both embassies and consulates, and our embassy in Nassau is one of the 260.
As you mentioned in the beginning, China sees The Bahamas as an important partner for China in the Caribbean region. The Bahamas not just offers an excellent tourist destination. It is a leading financial center in a region. It is a leading country in terms of ship registry. There is no reason why China and The Bahamas shouldn't pursue our mutual interest. One more thing, more Chinese companies are looking to come to The Bahamas to make investments and more Chinese tourists are coming this way. So we need a mission here to support these endeavors. We live in a globalized world. We see the world as a community with a shared future. It serves both our shared interests for China and The Bahamas to work together to maximize the advantages of globalization, and address global challenges together, such as climate change.
Clint Watson: You talk about mutual interests. What are some of China's interests in The Bahamas?
Dai Qingli: I think our biggest interest is to work with the Bahamas Government and people to increase the economic well-being of The Bahamas, and also work for the mutual benefit of our two countries. China is interested in many areas of cooperation, and there are many promising areas.
Take for example tourism, which is the pillar industry in your country. Every year in China, people make 145 million overseas visits. Even if a fraction of that visits come this way. That will be great for our two countries. Furthermore, we have 300,000 Chinese students in the US. That potentially can be a good market for Bahamian tourism too. Take agriculture, I know how hard The Bahamas tries to raise the self sufficiency in food supply to lower the cost of living for the average Bahamian. We can certainly support you on that. And we are doing similar things with other Caribbean countries.
China is one of the fastest growing country in terms of renewable energy. Last year, renewables took up 20% of our energy mix. So if you want to go for solar power, China will be on hand to help. The list can go on, such as climate change mitigation, public health, infrastructure, post disaster reconstruction. In any case we are ready to work with your country.
On the trade side too, it looks like a promising picture, but we really need to increase direct trade.
Clint Watson: Yes, we do. There are a lot of things that China can help The Bahamas with, but we've not ventured into half of those things yet. Are you surprised at The Bahamas not taking full advantage of the linkages and the assistance that China can provide in a vast amount of areas?
Dai Qingli: Well I wouldn't say that. I think the two governments have been working very hard to make things happen. But you know, in the real world, it is not that you have some good ideas and then you can immediately put that into action. Things normally don't work out that easily. Our two countries are separated by a big distance, and our interactions are disrupted so much by the pandemic for the past year and a half. I think we need to give each other a bit of time, but now I agree with you, we need to approach our cooperation with a bit of urgency to make use of financial resources available and move ahead on these potential areas of cooperation.
Direct trade
Clint Watson: You mentioned direct trade. Talk a little bit more what you mean about direct trade. You're talking about goods coming directly from China to The Bahamas?
Dai Qingli: Yes, that's right. What surprises me was that I heard a lot of the things that The Bahamas buy from China were actually bought from the US. That's because we lack channels for buying things from China. For example, Bahamian business people don't know whether the people they are dealing with in China are credible or not. And they don't even know these people. So you have to know the people you trade with to begin with. So we lack the fundamental networking between our business communities, and we need to address that to make trade more direct because that will cut some costs.
Clint Watson: I was just about to say direct trade to China and cutting out the middleman could directly impact the bottom line here, and make cost cheaper and consumers will feel that relief when it comes to goods and services, particularly in the grocery items, and even in manufacturing, it makes it simply cheaper.
Dai Qingli: Exactly. Even before we could have direct trade missions visiting each other, what the Bahamian business people could do is to make use of our online expositions. We have quite a few of that all across the year, like the Shanghai import Expo, the Canton Fair twice annually, and the Yiwu commodities fair which is a very good affair for daily consumer goods. So you can buy a lot of things online too even before going to China. But the best thing still is for people to actually go to China.
Future plans
Clint Watson: Let's talk a bit about future plans for investment and development in The Bahamas. Are there anything on the drawing board for the future?
Dai Qingli: Since my arrival, I have made courtesy calls on various members of the Cabinet. I've even had the honour of paying a courtesy call on the Most Honourable Prime Minister. We had comprehensive discussions about what China and The Bahamas can do next. I came away from these meetings deeply encouraged by the commitment expressed at the highest levels to promote the Bahamas' cooperation with China.
What will happen next is we're going to engage in specific discussions about what we can do. We will do that, hopefully, as soon as possible. But one thing is clear, whatever we are going to do with The Bahamas, we must make sure that they serve Bahamian needs and Bahamian interests, and they are conducive to creating jobs for the Bahamians, and make lives of the Bahamian people a bit better.
Chinese community in The Bahamas
Clint Watson: One of the most rapidly growing sectors of our business community is Chinese community. There are a lot of Chinese businesses here and they continue to grow. There are some challenges with that though, because many of them have claimed discriminatory treatment by Bahamians. A lot of times people are concerned, the Chinese stores are popping up everywhere. They're trying to take over. What do you say to that, because obviously the idea I'm thinking is to foster the relationship between the two communities, but there is a fear among many.
Dai Qingli: I think what you have described is not just occurring in The Bahamas, but in many countries, too. Chinese companies and Chinese people go to many countries to do business. For each new market they enter, they have to adapt to a new environment, and a new set of rules and norms. So sometimes it could be a bit challenging for them, but overall I think Chinese companies feel welcome here in The Bahamas. They work hard and they follow laws and regulations in this country, they engage in amicable terms with the local communities, and they are good corporate citizens, as far as we can see. Chinese companies donate both cash and in kind to the local people following the hurricane and the pandemic. They are trying to be helpful to local communities.
Due to cultural differences, sometimes they are much better doers than communicators. They need to better communicate their messages to the local communities. And it takes some bit of time for the locals to get used to their presence. But so far, we don't need to get alarmed. Overall, their presence in The Bahamas is a net plus for the Bahamian people and for the businesses themselves. But they do need to mingle a bit more with the locals.
Clint Watson: I was just about to say that. The Chinese families or communities of visitors tend to stick with themselves, not really mingled into the Bahamian culture.
Dai Qingli: That's a cultural thing. Normally they speak Mandarin, they don't speak English very well. Maybe they are not as outgoing as the local people. But they are very good people, very kind-hearted. Once you get familiar with them, you will find them very kind-hearted and very nice people, and they try to be helpful to others, whenever they can. A good starting point would be for the ethnic Chinese Bahamians to play the role of a bridge in narrowing the cultural gap, because they speak English, they grew up in this country. There is no cause for alarm. I don't think it's that dramatic -- China is taking over The Bahamas, I wouldn't say that.
Fighting the pandemic
Clint Watson: How has the pandemic impacted, businesses and relationships with China, and really the world? You trade with so many countries, and I'm sure this pandemic has impacted businesses, at some point in some level, particularly with so many people looking at China and saying, it is because of you that we are here in this pandemic. That must have disrupted and impacted relationships around the world. Talk a little bit about how China has been impacted by this pandemic.
Dai Qingli: The pandemic has affected every country, not just China. The Chinese economy suffered a serious downturn due to the pandemic. Last year, our growth figure was only 2.6%, the lowest in 40 years. This year the economy has come back strongly. In the first quarter it grew 18%. The pandemic did affect China's business relations with other countries. For example, trade with The Bahamas last year decreased by 18%. We are really looking to get get things back to normal levels between our two countries.
Fortunately what we have seen in the first half of this year is a coordinated recovery of leading economies in this world. So that should provide a generally favorable backdrop for the recovery of countries like The Bahamas. We are glad to see you tourism sector is coming back strongly, so hopefully with further vaccine roll-out, we'll continue to see an uptick in in tourism and the pulling back of the economy in general.
You talked about how China's relationship with other countries is affected. The rational voices are still the mainstream in the world. Blaming certain countries for the pandemic isn't really helpful. Can it save lives? No. Does that make people's lives easier? No. The thing with the virus is that it can strike any country anytime. We have seen many outbreaks before, like the H1N1, the Ebola and even earlier, the AIDS, and what was very unfairly called the Spanish flu. This is not the time to put blame or point fingers at others.
In China we have mostly received sympathy and support in our fight against the pandemic. Your country has sent us a statement to show solidarity and support, and we have received support from all over the world in our fight against the pandemic in the first half of last year. And months later, we began to help other countries. So things took a more or less dramatic turn. I think in this pandemic, the most important thing is solidarity and cooperation, not blaming or finger pointing.
Clint Watson: How has China assisted The Bahamas during this pandemic?
Dai Qingli: We stood by each other during this pandemic. China provided five batches of medical supplies to The Bahamas since last year, and we are in the process of putting together a new shipment of medical supplies to your country. Hopefully that plays a small role in your fight against the virus.
Vaccination
Clint Watson: Talking about the vaccination, Bahamians have been looking for other options, other than the AstraZeneca vaccines. I'm sure China has its own vaccination that it's using. How is that working and is China making that available to other countries who are looking for assistance with vaccination?
Dai Qingli: Absolutely. In China we have four vaccines that have been approved for emergency use by 101 countries, and two have been approved by the WHO. Even as we race to inoculate our own citizens, we try to help with developing countries. In late March, the figure was: with one vaccine shot administered to a Chinese citizen, one vaccine dose from China would be shared with foreign countries. Unfortunately we have seen an immunity gap opening up in the world between the developed and the developing countries. Even the UN Secretary General and the WHO Director General lamented about vaccine nationalism and the vaccination gap between different countries.
China has so far provided 350 million vaccine doses to more than 100 countries and international organizations. And as our president said, we plan to do more and as much as we can. People are really in need. In Africa for example, less than 1% of the population has been vaccinated. China is calling on developed countries to honour their pledge of sharing vaccines as soon as possible, because one more day of delay means more people put at risk of infection, hospitalization, and even death. It's time for coordinated global action.
Clint Watson: How effective are the vaccines in China?
Dai Qingli: The vaccines have been very effective. We heard about the different incidents with other vaccines. But in China, you rarely hear such incidents and Chinese vaccines have been used by more than 100 countries, and used for all age groups, from minors to the elderly. So far we have not heard reports about major incidents. Chinese vaccines use traditional inactivated virus. So that's very safe. And it offers broad spectrum protection, even with a mutated virus. The specific percentage of effectiveness with mutations still needs to be evaluated, but overall, Chinese vaccines offer very good protection. Some countries have done studies on this and their findings are positive.
Clint Watson: Is there talk about assisting The Bahamas with vaccines?
Dai qingli: China is open to assist different countries, as we have already done with so many countries. Normally countries need to raise a request. We have ongoing contacts with the Bahamas government.
Clint Watson: Would we see something in the future, China providing vaccinations for the Bahamian people?
Dai Qingli: We'll see what will happen. We are open to further dialogue and communication with the Bahamas government on this.
Centenary of the Communist Party of China
Clint Watson: I will talk about your party because the founding centenary of the Chinese Communist Party will be celebrated next month. What does that really mean and what is the significance of that to the people of China?
Dai Qingli: Yes, in a few days time, on July 1st, there will be a major celebration in Beijing and across China for the 100th anniversary of the founding of the Communist Party of China(CPC). That's a major milestone not just for the party, but for the whole country. Over the past hundred years, an important accomplishment of the CPC was that it led the Chinese people in winning national independence and liberation. The leadership of the CPC is a choice of history and the choice made by the Chinese people. That is because no other political party or political force could ever succeed in freeing the Chinese people from the shackles of semi-colonialism, feudalism, aggression, and poverty, and it was only the CPC, who succeeded in bringing the country on the right track.
The CPC established the right political system for China, that is, socialism, and initiated a brand new road of development for China, including providing land to more than 300 million Chinese people. The CPC introduced the right policies for China. Maybe you have heard about reform and opening up in China, and the road of socialism with Chinese characteristics. This road, theory and system brought tremendous prosperity to the Chinese people. It made us the second largest economy in the world, and lifted 900 million people out of poverty in just 40 years. And in the last 10 years and more, the Chinese economy contributed more than 30% to global growth. So there is a very positive effect for the world from China under the leadership of the Communist Party. Now at 100 years old, the party is moving on to a new journey of socialist modernization of China, which will make our country, even stronger and more prosperous, and environmentally more beautiful.
Clint Watson: With over 900 million people being liberated out of poverty in 40 years, that's a major accomplishment, and then at 100 years, how does this shape the future of politics for China, and its place in the world's economy coming out of this pandemic. What can the world expect out of China, going forward?
Dai Qingli: I think the history of the Communist Party for the past 100 years has shown the leadership of the Communist Party was and will continue to be the fundamental guarantee for the success of China in the future. And the party leadership is the biggest source of strength for socialism with Chinese characteristics.
The relationship between the CPC and the people is not a marriage of convenience that breaks up easily under external pressure. It is a bond made of flesh and blood dating back to the revolutionary years. The party's political power comes from the support of the Chinese people. And this is often overlooked by some quarters of western societies.
China will continue to go down this road of socialism with Chinese characteristics. As for the world, as I said, the socialist modernization of China will open up much more opportunities for the development of all countries. And China will further pursue the Belt and Road cooperation, as more than 170 countries and international organizations have signed up for Belt and Road cooperation. We will continue to support Belt and Road cooperation together with other countries.
Clint Watson: What is the role of the Communist Party of China in the fight against the pandemic? what does that really mean for your country?
Dai Qingli: The CPC played a pivotal role in China's fight against the pandemic. And General Secretary Xi Jinping himself was in command in this critical battle. The CPC made some very tough but necessary decisions, such as locking down Wuhan, a city of 11 million people, for 76 days. That decision was criticized, at that time, by some Western countries as too draconian, but with hindsight, that was a critical step in saving lives and in putting the pandemic under initial control.
The party was very good at national coordination to make sure that the resources are channeled to where they are needed the most. For example, we built two brand new hospitals, each with 1000 beds, in less than two weeks each, with 24 hour shifts and tens of thousands of Chinese workers working non-stop for two weeks. That was possible thanks to the concentration of resources nationwide. The CPC mobilized more than 40,000 doctors and nurses from all across China to Wuhan and to Hubei province to help fight the pandemic. Many of these doctors or nurses are party members, and some even laid down their lives fighting this virus. One thing the CPC also did was to hold those officials accountable for any dereliction of duties during this fight against the pandemic.
Overall the CPC inspired a unity of purpose and effective action that placed China in very good stead in fighting this pandemic.
Bahamas' foreign relations
Clint Watson: There is a fear that people in The Bahamas have that we are very good neighbors to the country in the north, the United States of America. But we also have significant investments with China. So we are caught between "two lovers". I just want to ask you, is China concerned about The Bahamas' longstanding relationship with the United States? People have this notion that it's an issue that we have to choose. How does China see it?
Dai Qingli: I think it's quite natural for The Bahamas to maintain good relations with your neighbors, particularly big neighbors who can help you on many occasions. For China coming to The Bahamas, we have no geopolitical agenda. We just want to be here for economic and people to people exchanges, so we don't see why it has to be an either or for The Bahamas. For China, the last thing we want is to ask The Bahamas to choose. You shouldn't have to choose. You can normally develop your relations with your neighbors and with China at the same time. There doesn't have to be any conflict between the two. At the same time, we wouldn't want to see interference in the normal cooperation between China and The Bahamas. That's your foreign policy any way. It is up to The Bahamas to develop your relations with other countries.
Mission and focus
Clint Watson: Let's talk about your focus. You're now in The Bahamas. You've been obviously given a mandate. What is your focus as the ambassador here, what is it that you think you want to focus on or leave as your legacy?
Dai qingli: It's my great honour to serve as the ninth Chinese ambassador to The Bahamas, and the first female to be in this role. So my mission statement is simple, hand-in-hand for a better future of China-Bahamas relations. My focus will be three-fold: to resume high level visits and contacts as soon as the pandemic subsides, and secondly to step up economic and trade cooperation, and thirdly to promote cross-cultural understanding between our countries, which is very important for the two peoples and for our societies. I will try as much as I can by working with Bahamian colleagues and friends from all walks of life.